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RE: Israel has bombed Iran - FCD - 06-24-2025
(06-24-2025, 06:48 PM)gortex Wrote:Quote:For what reason?
Just because I guess.
Quote:At least 44 people have been killed after Israeli forces and drones opened fire on people waiting for aid in two separate incidents in Gaza, according to witnesses and hospital officials.
In one of the incidents, witnesses told the Associated Press (AP) news agency that Israeli forces fired as people were advancing towards approaching aid trucks on a road south of Wadi Gaza in central Gaza.
The Awda hospital in the Nuseirat refugee camp, which treated some of the victims, confirmed 25 deaths and said another 146 people were wounded.
Among them were 62 people in a critical condition, who were transferred to other hospitals, it added.
https://news.sky.com/story/at-least-25-people-killed-after-israeli-forces-open-fire-near-aid-trucks-in-gaza-witnesses-say-13387819
Quote:France condemns the Israeli fire on civilians gathered around an aid distribution center in Gaza last night that left several dozen people dead or injured.
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/country-files/israel-palestinian-territories/news/2025/article/israel-palestinian-territories-israeli-fire-on-civilians-in-gaza-june-24-2025
And just to illustrate the iron grip of control Netanyahu and his henchmen have on Western (MSM) media...there is not a single mention of this story on ABC, NBC, CNN, NYT, NPR, NYP, FOX, MSNBC, CBS and many other US-MSM outlets. Reuters and AP are running the story, but none of the US networks have felt this story important enough to pick up. Israel rules over the US media with absolute control; they have supreme control over every story they publish to ensure Israel never looks bad.
RE: Israel has bombed Iran - FCD - 06-24-2025
You know, on a related note; this alleged 'missing' 900 lbs. of enriched Iranian Uranium is only enriched to 60%, so it's technically not 'weapons grade' HEU (which needs to be enriched to 90% to make an effective weapon). Yes, a crude weapon can be made from this material, but it's not something which would ever be able to be used with a missile. Any sort of a weapon constructed from this level of enrichment would need to be physically huge in order to achieve critical mass. This means it likely wouldn't even be something which could be delivered by aircraft; it would be too heavy. Someone could maybe make a dirty bomb or something like that, but not a modern nuke. Delivering something on a heavy-haul tractor trailer rig is not going to be a surprise to anyone, and it's going to be slow not to mention having a radiation signature which could be observed from space.
And, I've never heard of Iran having any sort of a confirmed stockpile of 90% HEU. Lots of rumors, of course, over the past couple decades, but nothing confirmed.
Just thought I'd point this out given there seems to be some teeth gnashing and hand wringing going on over the stuff in the MSM over the past two days. Most all of these stories neglect to point this 'minor' detail out...and the difference between 60% and 90% enrichment is like comparing a glass of water to a quantity of water akin to something the size of Lake Michigan.
RE: Israel has bombed Iran - Ninurta - 06-24-2025
(06-24-2025, 03:51 PM)FCD Wrote: Finally! Trump castigates both Netanyahu and Iran for breaking ceasefire. "Neither of the two know what the Fk they're doing!!" Good! It's about time Netanyahu got told to sit the fk down and stop stirring shit up! This should have happened before the US strike on Iran too, IMO. He'll keep doing this kind of stuff as long as he thinks he can go hide behind the US, and he will not stop.
Iran's mullahs need dead, no question about it. But Netanyahu needs to mind his own damn business and stop breaking cease fires and truce agreements without probable cause. Both sides seemed to think this latest ceasefire was an excuse to get a last lick in on their opponent, and they're BOTH wrong!
Neither one knows what the fk they're doing!!
Well, to be fair, Trump sort of invited that "last licks in"scenario when he said that the ceasefire would commence in so many hours, after actions already in progress have played out So, both sides said "well, we'd best get some final actions 'already in progress' before the deadline!"
Additionally, I'm hearing he was sort of vague on when the deadline fell. He should have said "at such and such a time, GMT, all operations either in progress or in planning will stop cold." That would have stepped the vagueness that allowed these violations to happen.
Well, most of them. That bulshit of Iran launching a couple more missiles 4 hours after the cease fire, and then saying "Nah, it wasn't me. Look over THERE!" and pointing anywhere away from themselves would have still happened.
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RE: Israel has bombed Iran - Ninurta - 06-24-2025
(06-24-2025, 05:12 PM)FCD Wrote:Quote:At least 25 civilians were killed today in Gaza after IDF opened fire on a crowd waiting for an aid delivery.
For what reason?
I seem to be the vast minority here in my assessment of Netanyahu, but I stand by what I have said. I also believe if people take the time to look they will see the same patterns of behavior. This man simply does not want peace. You will see.
I have no opinion on Netenyahu. I know nothing about the man beyond the fact that he is just a tool, but a tool that is, at the moment, preserving Israel's right to exist. Beyond that, I know nothing about the man, and don't care to waste any time getting to know him.
I can accept your stipulation, and that of Gortex, that "Netanyahu does not want peace", as well as Gortex's contention that "Israel is as much to blame for the violation as Iran is". The fact is, the ayatollahs don't want peace, either, not any more than Netanyahu does, and likely a fair amount less - I don't see Israelis requiring school children to start their day chanting "Death to Iran!"
Given those conditions, I'm rapidly approaching the opinion that we ought to just give 'em both a set of figurative boxing gloves, then stand back to keep everyone else from jumping in, and just let them go to town on one another, duke it out, and tell them "the last man standing wins".
The main problem with that scenario is that, in the case of an Iran win and the elimination of Israel, then in 15 years or so we'd just have to go in and bomb the crap out of Iran's nuclear program again to keep the rest of the world safe from their aggressive tendencies. Remember, their ultimate goal is "to make all the world for Allah and Islam"... so, once Israel is gone, they'll just turn to the next target, and keep on chugging along. Furthermore, as a Shi'ite nation, all Sunni moslem nations are on the menu, too. "Making the world for Allah and Islam" also means the elimination, eventually, of Sunni Islam as well.
There is no peaceful way out.
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RE: Israel has bombed Iran - FCD - 06-24-2025
(06-24-2025, 09:06 PM)Ninurta Wrote: Well, to be fair, Trump sort of invited that "last licks in"scenario when he said that the ceasefire would commence in so many hours, after actions already in progress have played out So, both sides said "well, we'd best get some final actions 'already in progress' before the deadline!"
Agreed. I thought the same thing.
Quote:Additionally, I'm hearing he was sort of vague on when the deadline fell. He should have said "at such and such a time, GMT, all operations either in progress or in planning will stop cold." That would have stepped the vagueness that allowed these violations to happen.
It wasn't just vague, it was stair stepped. It started for the Iranians 12 hours before it started for Israel. And Trump even said that...leading to even more confusion. A ceasefire should be at a defined time, for ALL parties engaged in the conflict, not one time for one party and then another for the other party. That's just inviting trouble.
Quote:Well, most of them. That bulshit of Iran launching a couple more missiles 4 hours after the cease fire, and then saying "Nah, it wasn't me. Look over THERE!" and pointing anywhere away from themselves would have still happened..
Again, agreed. Iran has exactly zero credibility, and it doesn't matter what they say, because even in the Koran it says it's perfectly fine to lie through your teeth in order to defeat the 'evil zionist devils and infidels'. So the West should never expect anything different. Plus, a huge part of Muslim culture is all about "saving face". It's not just a personal ego thing, it's like a cultural requirement thing and an obligation to Muhammad and ultimately Allah.
Unfortunately, Israel and Netanyahu in particular, isn't far behind in the trust department. They say one thing and then do something altogether different.
RE: Israel has bombed Iran - Ninurta - 06-24-2025
(06-24-2025, 09:30 PM)FCD Wrote: ... Iran has exactly zero credibility, and it doesn't matter what they say, because even in the Koran it says it's perfectly fine to lie through your teeth in order to defeat the 'evil zionist devils and infidels'. So the West should never expect anything different. Plus, a huge part of Muslim culture is all about "saving face". It's not just a personal ego thing, it's like a cultural requirement thing and an obligation to Muhammad and ultimately Allah.
Unfortunately, Israel and Netanyahu in particular, isn't far behind in the trust department. They say one thing and then do something altogether different.
I think you are referring to "taqiyya". I don't think it's actually in the Qur'an, but instead will be found in hadith, particularly Shi'a hadith. As I recall, it was invented by the Shi'a offshoot of Islam way back when, as a means of hiding in plain sight when they were under the gun and on the run from the Sunni majority which was killing them off as heretics, "infidels"
The basic premise is that they are allowed to lie to anyone outside their own sect if it is "necessary to preserve life".
As an example, I once had a Moslem lie straight into my face and send me all the way across town on a wild goose chase. He did this because a) he had taken a shine to me, b) he knew that an attack was coming in the immediate vicinity, and c) he wanted to make sure I didn't get caught in it, but without tipping me off that it was coming.
He had determined, in his own mind, that "a lie was necessary to preserve life" - mine. But the catch is, they don't use it to indiscriminately preserve life, they use it only to preserve lives they give a shit about - their own, their family, their friends, their "co-religionists". Everyone else is fair game to them.
It's not just "Islam against the world", but often "my sect of Islam against the world". Islam divides the world into two categories - "dar al Islam", "the house or abode of submission" (often translated as "the abode of peace", but that is not correct), and "dar al harb", "the house or abode of war". In other words, if you are not in submission to Allah ("Islam"), then you are at war with Islam, and therefore fair game.
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RE: Israel has bombed Iran - FCD - 06-24-2025
Quote:Given those conditions, I'm rapidly approaching the opinion that we ought to just give 'em both a set of figurative boxing gloves, then stand back to keep everyone else from jumping in, and just let them go to town on one another, duke it out, and tell them "the last man standing wins".
I would be perfectly okay with swords. Again, until one bloodied, near-corpse, prevails.
Quote:The main problem with that scenario is that, in the case of an Iran win and the elimination of Israel, then in 15 years or so we'd just have to go in and bomb the crap out of Iran's nuclear program again to keep the rest of the world safe from their aggressive tendencies. Remember, their ultimate goal is "to make all the world for Allah and Islam"... so, once Israel is gone, they'll just turn to the next target, and keep on chugging along. Furthermore, as a Shi'ite nation, all Sunni moslem nations are on the menu, too. "Making the world for Allah and Islam" also means the elimination, eventually, of Sunni Islam as well.
Having lived among a Muslim culture in a Muslim country for several years myself, I have no misgivings or fantasies about how some of these people operate in real life. The more secular and extremist they become, the more savage they become. I don't harbor any utopian fantasies about what some people 'say'. I've seen them operate in real life, in actual practice. I've had to sit across negotiating tables from them. I've seen the lies first hand, and there's no fantasy or 3rd-hand wives tales there, just pure personal, in person, experience. These people will lie, cheat and do anything to 'save face' and to agree to nothing less than something which makes them "look" like they 'win' under any and all circumstances. (There are countless ways around this, but that's a different discussion).
Further, one side of Islam loves to make the other side of Islam look like "they" are the violent extremist ones, but your point was dead-on...these people do not truly believe in peace for all eternity UNLESS it is on their terms and their terms ONLY. Anything less is worth a fight to the death if it comes down to it. 90% of the time it's about psyching the 'other' guy into believing you are more committed than the other guy. It's like 90% mind-fk, and 10% reality. And, in certain situations, it can get to the point where whatever the issue is is silly to the point of laugh-ability (to an outsider), but it's deadly serious to them.
Believe me, I make no excuses at all for the Muslims and the Muslim cultural values (values in particular). This is why I hope people understand I make no excuses for any culture and/or cultural values. From a moral perspective, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the gaping chasm between morally right, and morally wrong. And, I believe this is one of the biggest single factors which brought western culture into the modern age, when cultures such as the Muslim culture remained in the dark ages even up until the mid 21st Century (i.e. late 2010's and early 2020's). When I first went over to SE Asia, back in the mid '90's, it was still a 3rd world country and region. Thailand was much further along than areas further south where I was in Malaysia.
RE: Israel has bombed Iran - Ninurta - 06-24-2025
(06-24-2025, 10:13 PM)FCD Wrote: ...
Having lived among a Muslim culture in a Muslim country for several years myself, I have no misgivings or fantasies about how some of these people operate in real life. The more secular and extremist they become, the more savage they become. I don't harbor any utopian fantasies about what some people 'say'. I've seen them operate in real life, in actual practice. I've had to sit across negotiating tables from them. I've seen the lies first hand, and there's no fantasy or 3rd-hand wives tales there, just pure personal, in person, experience.
...
Have you ever sat in on "negotiations" between Moslem factions? It's a sight to behold - "Brothers" this and "Brothers" that, all manner of pretty, flowery language and speeches trying to appear conciliatory, but the subtext is ALWAYS "My way or the graveyard". In order to broker any agreements, each side has to be able to return to their own people and appear to have thumped the shit out of the other side, diplomatically of course.
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RE: Israel has bombed Iran - FCD - 06-24-2025
Yes, as a matter of fact I have. In fact, I've heard the flowery stuff and when the going got rough I've even heard the threats (which are probably most likened to mafia type stuff). On one project we had, Bin Laden Construction was working on the project. Yes, the same Bin Laden as Osama "Bin Hidin'". Not a direct son, but Bin Laden is a massive construction firm all over the Middle East. When the Malaysian overwhelmingly Sunni government would get sideways with the (also Sunni) Bin Laden family, the daggers would come out (because they are of different lineages). I've even heard negotiations as intense as..."Well, I'm sure you've heard about the bin Laden followings of the brother Osama, right?" That's like a serious threat (impolite off the scale), basically on people's heads! The response was..."Yes, yes, we are aware of this brother...but surely he is not your sole negotiator and representative. Come now. Let us have tea shall we, and pehaps some biscuits, and we shall discuss. this matter in earnest. Gentlemen, would you excuse us, please? (at which point none of them move...translated meaning..."GET OUT!"). Seriously!
So yes, I've seen all sorts of stuff, stuff where it gets down to what I call "salami slicing time", and you could cut the tension in the air with a knife.
The Petronas Towers were under construction at the same time (then, tallest buildings in the world and there were two of them), and they were in big trouble (one of the towers anyway. (There were two different competing GC's, one building each tower. And, it was apparently a race.)) The project I was on was far larger than the Towers, so those were just a novelty to us, but it helped maintain some sanity in an otherwise insane world in what was SE Asia at the time. The growth was literally off the charts.
Edit - Less than 18 months later Soros yanked the carpet out from underneath all of SE Asia and tanked the economy...just for fun. Probably over a cigar bet. The economy tanked, they threw all of us ex-pats out of the country. What's weird is, Chinese capitalism capitalized on the crisis and made massive investment in real estate there which would ultimately cost them trillions, and much of it sits vacant even to this day. (I have a buddy to stayed behind, married a SE Asian (Chinese) attorney, and he still provides me regular updates.)
RE: Israel has bombed Iran - 727Sky - 06-25-2025
CNN the same network who said the Hunter Biden lap top was fake and Biden was sharp as a tack and not falling asleep in his soup. The same fake news reporters are still at CNN. Obama's people still have a voice that CNN and MSN will quote as if fact. Amazing how people will listen and believe what a lying CNN (Communist news net work and before that it was the Clinton news network) POS network says.
RE: Israel has bombed Iran - xuenchen - 06-25-2025
A few people are realizing the "LEAK" of that "REPORT" was perfect.
It's a decoy report to flush out traitors and spies still inside The Pentagon.
Democrats and MSM falling for this like bricks from a cliff
Trump and Admin taking full advantage of the game
RE: Israel has bombed Iran - FCD - 06-25-2025
Very candidly...if Pentagon personnel, members of Congress or the Senate, cabinet members, or members of the media are caught exposing national secrets, then they should "swing" suspended from the neck until dead! Period. No exceptions.
Feds hunt Intel Leaker
RE: Israel has bombed Iran - 727Sky - 06-29-2025
Another young man who has ruined his life and will not enjoy his remaining days; as it should be.
"An Israeli man, Roy Mizrahi, was arrested for allegedly plotting to assassinate Defense Minister Israel Katz on behalf of Iran, Channel 12 reported. Recruited via Telegram, Mizrahi placed explosives near Katz’s home and was charged with aiding an enemy during wartime. His case highlights Iran’s growing use of social media to recruit Israeli spies. Separately, leaked intel revealed Israel had agents in Iran since 2010. In response, Iran urged foreign residents to report suspected Israeli collaborators or face legal consequences.
RE: Israel has bombed Iran - F2d5thCav - 06-29-2025
It is high time the leakers in DC were smoked, and good.
People at lower levels had their careers canned over the decades for far less serious offenses, many of which were honest mistakes. There was never any reason the swamp crew should have been treated any differently.
And the worst offenders ? Those in intel and security positions.
RE: Israel has bombed Iran - FCD - 06-29-2025
(06-29-2025, 07:15 PM)F2d5thCav Wrote: ...
And the worst offenders ? Those in intel and security positions.
And you don't have to dig very far to see the reason why either. That's where the big money is! That kind of info is worth millions. There are people who have built entire careers based on getting the clearances required for some of those levels, and then building relationships inside those circles, just so they can leave and sell this kind of intel to the enemy, or the media (who is also the enemy). Some don't even leave; they're able to get away with it in their regular day job.
All the more reason to cancel any and all security clearances when people leave government employ (which they do, but not carefully monitoring them and their associates after their departure closely enough.) Yes, there's a bit of a double edged sword here, but just consider at the alternatives. This is national security we're talking about here, not the keys to the power tool case at Home Depot! The very sovereignty and safety of 340 million taxpaying citizens depends on this information remaining secure. These are critical responsibilities with grave consequences upon failure.