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Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - FCD - 07-01-2025
Trump is in the media this morning saying failure to pass this "Big Beautiful" bill will result in a "68% tax increase". Now, I don't know what exactly that means, and if this would be across the board or just to certain sectors, so I'll save getting irate until I understand it better. But I can say this...if Trump were to enact some broad 68% tax increase across the board for the American taxpayer, that would be the end of him politically, the end of MAGA, and everything else. America won't sit down for something like that, not even for 5 minutes.
So, more to follow on this front, but definitely interesting times we live in at the moment!
Trump warns of 68% tax increase
(link above for reference and context)
RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - gortex - 07-01-2025
I think if successful businessman and Trump loyalist Musk thinks it's bad for America it's likely bad for America , I've seen it reported the bill could add around $4 Trillion to US National debt over the next 10 years which is already at eyewatering levels .
Trump's the 68% tax increase claim is likely a political tool plucked from thin air used as a scare tactic as it isn't in either CBO or JCT estimates from what I've read.
And then there's the estimated 12 Million Americans who could lose their health insurance
Quote:A sprawling budget bill in the US Senate could cut health insurance coverage for nearly 12 million Americans and add $3.3tn (£2.4tn) in debt, according to new estimates.
The assessment from the Congressional Budget Office, a non-partisan federal agency, could complicate Republican efforts to pass President Donald Trump's One Big Beautiful Bill Act in the coming days.
The spending plan narrowly cleared a preliminary vote in the Senate late on Saturday after party leaders scrambled to arm-twist hesitant members of their rank and file.
One defector, Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina, announced he would not seek reelection after voting against the president's signature legislation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2verel4nlo
Quote:Even these numbers understate the potential costs of the bill, since the legislation relies on a number of arbitrary expirations. Borrowing could rise by another $1 trillion – to $5 trillion or more – if temporary provisions were made permanent.
The Senate should reject this bill and work toward a fiscally responsible alternative that reduces rather than explodes our high and rising debt.
https://www.crfb.org/blogs/cbo-score-shows-senate-obbba-adds-over-39-trillion-debt
![[Image: Senate_Bill_Updated_Byrd.png.webp?itok=51NXYJCf]](https://www.crfb.org/sites/default/files/styles/media_image_default/public/images/Senate_Bill_Updated_Byrd.png.webp?itok=51NXYJCf)
RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - Ninurta - 07-01-2025
Good. If the feckless Republicrat Uniparty are going to strip out all of the beneficial (to the citizens) provisions in the bill via spurious "Byrd Rules" assessments, then the politicians ought not to get a single bite of all the pork they have heaped up on their platters in it.
Don't even try to tell me "butbutbut... it's the DEMOCRATS stripping al that out, through their all-powerful Parliamentarian!" My ass it is. That's utter bullshit. Republicans have ALL of the tools at their disposal to stop that lunacy cold in it's tracks, yet they won't do it. That tells me there is collusion going on between the two supposedly "adversarial" parties, and that they are in fact one big happy Republicrat Uniparty. We don't need One Party rule trying to masquerade as a dysfunctional adversarial system - we need people in DC who will work for US, and do OUR bidding. Ain't that why we sent them there in the first place?
Double my taxes while simultaneously trying to abrogate my rights, bitches. See where that gets you. Either work for us, the People who hired you, or else go the hell home. We can make that happen - those who hire you can fire you, too. We've got that kind of power.
Musk is just a heartbeat away from starting a new party responsive to it's constituency... and that will leave all of the politicians sitting flat on their asses in the dust, desperately trying to hold their grasp on the pork they piled up.
Look at what is going on in the UK - Reform comes out of nowhere, and starts stacking up political bodies in a wall like cordwood. We can do that, too... after all, we originated as a British colony, and have that same DNA. Watch us go if you keep screwing around. FAFO.
Try us. See for yourselves.
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RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - xuenchen - 07-02-2025
Now for new drama in The House
RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - Kenzo1 - 07-02-2025
(07-01-2025, 09:05 PM)Ninurta Wrote: Good. If the feckless Republicrat Uniparty are going to strip out all of the beneficial (to the citizens) provisions in the bill via spurious "Byrd Rules" assessments, then the politicians ought not to get a single bite of all the pork they have heaped up on their platters in it.
Don't even try to tell me "butbutbut... it's the DEMOCRATS stripping al that out, through their all-powerful Parliamentarian!" My ass it is. That's utter bullshit. Republicans have ALL of the tools at their disposal to stop that lunacy cold in it's tracks, yet they won't do it. That tells me there is collusion going on between the two supposedly "adversarial" parties, and that they are in fact one big happy Republicrat Uniparty. We don't need One Party rule trying to masquerade as a dysfunctional adversarial system - we need people in DC who will work for US, and do OUR bidding. Ain't that why we sent them there in the first place?
Double my taxes while simultaneously trying to abrogate my rights, bitches. See where that gets you. Either work for us, the People who hired you, or else go the hell home. We can make that happen - those who hire you can fire you, too. We've got that kind of power.
Musk is just a heartbeat away from starting a new party responsive to it's constituency... and that will leave all of the politicians sitting flat on their asses in the dust, desperately trying to hold their grasp on the pork they piled up.
Look at what is going on in the UK - Reform comes out of nowhere, and starts stacking up political bodies in a wall like cordwood. We can do that, too... after all, we originated as a British colony, and have that same DNA. Watch us go if you keep screwing around. FAFO.
Try us. See for yourselves.
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It would be the interest of the people if new party ( if it comes ) wont be ruled by gerontocracy .
6 charts that explain the United States' march toward gerontocracy
Mitch McConnell freezes for second time during press event
[url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66665682][/url]
RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - xuenchen - 07-03-2025
The OBBB just passed The House. Trump signs July 4th
RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - Ninurta - 07-03-2025
(07-03-2025, 07:43 PM)xuenchen Wrote: The OBBB just passed The House. Trump signs July 4th
Well then - we'll see if Musk makes good on his threat to create the "American Party" in a few days. Either way, if the Republicrats don't find a way before the midterms to get suppressors, SBR's, and SBS's off of the Federal Registry, I'm done with the Repulicrats.
They had a golden opportunity, and they folded like a cheap lawn chair instead.
I don't care so much about SBR's and SBS's. They're useless to me, but they ought to be allowed for those who think they might have a use, since the 2nd Amendment guarantees that the government is not allowed to interfere with the right to have them.
Suppressors are a different matter. The ability to use suppressors on a regular basis might have saved my hearing. I'd like for my children and grandchildren to have that option unencumbered if they so choose. Hearing is important, despite what the Republicrats think about it.
I've used suppressors upon occasion as circumstances permitted. They're not like the movies show - they usually just reduce the report of the weapon to safe levels, they don't make a shot truly "silent". The most effective one's I've used were on a Ruger 10/22 and a suppressor made for the CIA, only 6 of which were ever made, on an M9 pistol. The 10/22 suppressor was built-in to the barrel of the weapon, not detachable, and enshrouded the entire barrel from chamber to muzzle. It was so effective that all I could hear was the slap pf the bolt cycling. The M9 suppressor was a little louder than that, but not a lot. Most are considerably louder, but still hearing safe. No reason to ban or "regulate" them other than dumbasses who are scared because they get all their information from either inaccurate movies, or other clueless dumbasses.
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RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - FCD - 07-03-2025
Suppressors are generally only effective suppressing sub-sonic ammo, regardless of caliber, anyway. Any ammo which has a velocity above 1,125 fps (at 68F, and at Sea Level; it varies by altitude, air density and several other factors) is considered supersonic. A suppressor won't suppress any of the supersonic 'crack' heard as the projectile accelerates above the sound barrier because this occurs outside the barrel.
Just thought I'd pass this bit of trivia along for background. Though slower and less powerful, sub-sonic ammo is about 2x the price of regular ammo...mainly just because they can.
RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - Ninurta - 07-03-2025
(07-03-2025, 09:17 PM)FCD Wrote: Suppressors are generally only effective suppressing sub-sonic ammo, regardless of caliber, anyway. Any ammo which has a velocity above 1,125 fps (at 68F, and at Sea Level; it varies by altitude, air density and several other factors) is considered supersonic. A suppressor won't suppress any of the supersonic 'crack' heard as the projectile accelerates above the sound barrier because this occurs outside the barrel.
Just thought I'd pass this bit of trivia along for background. Though slower and less powerful, sub-sonic ammo is about 2x the price of regular ammo...mainly just because they can.
The 10/22 I used was using full-power ammo. Subsonic .22 was in pretty short supply back in those days, although you can get it readily enough now. All I heard at the operator end was the slap pf the bolt as it cycled, although there may have been a supersonic "crack" as the round passed the target on the business end. Part of that was likely due to the design of the suppressor, and it's volume as it enclosed the entire barrel from stem to stern. I'm guessing that bled off enough propellant gasses to reduce the full power cartridges to subsonic speeds at the muzzle exit, effectively turning full power rounds to subsonic rounds.
For subsonic .22, I recommend CCI's subsonic .22 rounds. They are balanced enough to be subsonic, but still powerful enough to properly cycle a semi-automatic action. A lot of the "subsonic" rounds have been so power-reduced that they are unable to properly cycle actions, and so have to be used in single-shots and bolt guns.The last I bought was about 3 years ago, and ran about 20 dollars for a 100 round box of them, so right at 20 cents a round..
Those, along with a suppressor, will allow you to not only protect your hearing, but also to hunt squirrels, groundhogs, and the like without unduly upsetting neighbors... not to mention backyard target practice that sometimes puts overly-sensitive neighbors out of sorts. Here, I don't have to worry about that sort of thing. If I'm not shooting, the neighbors are, so I presume them not to be overly sensitive types. In urban and suburban contexts, however, you never know how sensitive the neighbors might be until the cops come calling to ask you to tone it down.
The M9 in 9mm was a little louder specifically because of that supersonic crack, but it wasn't loud enough to affect hearing. However, while the crack will allow the target to realize it's being shot at, it won't, by itself, allow it to locate the shooter. For that to happen, the target has to be able to hear the initial report of the weapon AND the crack as the projectile passes, so that they can align the two and suss out a location. A little bit of bolt slap won't get the job done, depending on range to target. The "crack" at the muzzle is never audible at the target, either, because it travels with the projectile. All that is heard at the target is the crack as the projectile passes, not the entire route of the bullet.
With supersonic rounds and no suppressor, what you will hear, as the target, will be the report of the weapon and a sizzling noise or "buzzing" like a big angry hornet coming for you along the route of bullet travel. The buzzing is caused by the bullet rapidly displacing the air along it's route, so it gets progressively louder, then loudest as it passes and cracks,and then progressively less loud until the slap noise when it hits something solid behind you. Now, to be fair, that all happens in a fairly rapid succession, so all most folks remember is the "buzz" and the "crack".
It's the buzz and the crack that lets you know to start trying to dig a trench in the ground with your shirt buttons.
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RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - 727Sky - 07-03-2025
The Big Beautiful Bill has passed so no 68% tax increase
RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - 727Sky - 07-03-2025
$200 tax for suppressor is no more and many more talking points. Main thing is the boarder is shut down inspite of the democrat judges trying to run interference.
RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - Ninurta - 07-03-2025
(07-03-2025, 10:54 PM)727Sky Wrote: $200 tax for suppressor is no more and many more talking points. Main thing is the boarder is shut down inspite of the democrat judges trying to run interference.
While it's true that the tax stamp for suppressors is - or will be - gone, that's not a "gain" really, it's just an attempt at misdirection. They're trying to say "lookit what we done for ya!" when really, they didn't do much at all, and certainly a lot less than they could have.
Granted, 200 bucks is way too much tax for what amounts to a tiny metal tube with a bunch of baffles inside it. Think what it would be like if they taxed 200 dollars on every car muffler, which is essentially the same thing. However, the greatest impediments were left in place - you still have to have your name put on a Federal register, and you still have to submit a set of fingerprints, and you still have to wait 8 months to a year to take possession of that metal tube containing a series of baffles. They did exactly Jack Squat about those impediments.
You can go down to Pep Boys and purchase and walk away with a car muffler today - all in one stop, no waiting. BUT in order to get hold of a much tinier version of the same thing, you have to jump through hoops and twiddle your thumbs for a year or so while you wait for the government to give you permission for a thing that is guaranteed they can't interfere with right there in the Bill of Rights... yet interfere they do.
Furthermore, those impediments such as the registry and the fingerprints and the waiting were all in place ONLY to support the tax stamp, to make sure folks who were supposed to be taxed actually were. Without the tax, the rest is thoroughly illegal and unconstitutional. If they don't at least try to get it thrown out on that basis in the next year and a half - which is plenty of time to get it started - then I'm done with them altogether. They failed us this time, and if they fail us again on that, then they are not worthy of a job in DC - they should just stand back and let serious folks handle the big stuff.
So, while the Big Beautiful Bill does a lot of nice things, it doesn't do what was promised, because the Republicrats just laid down and cried when challenged. that's not how you win.
Credit to the Republican who tried, there just weren't enough of them. Most turned out to be Republicrats, working in lockstep with the Democans to continue stomping on folks' rights.
Now I wait to see if Musk is going to make good on his threat to create an "America Party", and if he does, see just what it stands for. Until then, I'm a Libertarian now, because they are the only party left that gives a crap about American Liberty.
The rest are just posers playing at being adults.
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RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - FCD - 07-04-2025
Well, I'll speak for myself here (and not on anyone else's behalf). This one issue is a big deal, but not quite big enough to throw the baby out with the bath water, at least not yet anyway. As it stands right now, there is no better viable alternatives (as shitty as that is); any alternatives which do exist are so vile, corrupt and toxic that they violate practically every principle I stand for, and this is just one. When there's a viable alternative (from a viable party), I might get there, to giving the big middle finger to the republicans, but not just yet. Again though, this is by no means a trivial issue.
Both sides of the aisle have issues, and both sides play bureaucratic 'games' which make me ill. I don't like any of it, but I like the democrats and current round of the independents (who are cut from the same cloth really) far, far, less than the 'other guys'. Yes, they ALL lie, but the democrat's whole foundation is built on lies and deception. The republicans are no heroes in my mind either, but they're a 'little' better, and at least I don't have the overwhelming urge to immediately start breaking shit when the republicans speak, like I do with the democrats. Every single word out of their vile pie hole's is completely objectionable and I've gotten to the point where I can't even listen/watch an entire sentence come out of their head's without wanting to throw the TV out the window, drag it behind my truck down the road and back, and then light it on fire. I don't actually do this, but I want to.
Again, although a big issue indeed, suppressor legalization alone is not the hill I choose to die on. A nationwide restriction on "assault weapons and hi-cap mags, like this F'ing State just allowed the corrupt governor to get away with, might cause it, but not suppressors alone. Yes, it's illegal, and yes, it's unconstitutional, and categorically unacceptable, but every single agenda item the dems have is 5x more objectionable to me.
Honestly, I'm thoroughly sick of ALL politicians, but I still need to vote for 'some' of even the most remotely agreeable representation and not just blindly sign up for destruction of this nation (which I will NOT do!), which is a bigger requirement for me.
Just my .02 though.
RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - 727Sky - 07-04-2025
Quote:GOA along with the Firearms Regulatory Accountability Coalition, Palmetto State Armory, Silencer Shop and B&T USA will file a lawsuit to remove suppressors & short-barreled firearms from the NFA. The NFA now stands on more unconstitutional grounds than ever before.
RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - Ninurta - 07-04-2025
Now I'll have to dig into the actual bill and see what was passed. I thought that they had voted to repeal the tax, but according to that GOA video, they only reduced it to 0 dollars. That is an important distinction for the GOA if it plans to repeal the rest of the measures.
You see, a repeal of the tax would give them firm ground to stand on in challenging the mechanisms meant to uphold a tax that no longer exists. On the other hand, a 0 dollar tax is STILL a tax, and that gives them an uphill fight.
They have to argue then that compliance mechanisms are unconstitutional in enforcing compliance with a tax that still exists, but has merely been reduced to 0 dollars. That's a tougher sell in hostile courts, and gives those hostile courts a hook to hang their hat on when they reject the argument - there is still a tax there, albeit 0 dollars, so compliance enforcement is still justified. You will still have to get the tax stamp that says you have paid zero dollars tax, and the government will still have to maintain the registry and fingerprints to confirm that you paid your zero dollar tax.
So, they may have caved in even farther than I thought.
Duplicitous bastards.
Congressional Republicrats remind me of a phrase I heard long ago, when a fight that was supposed to happen never did. "Clem backed out of the fight, and Jake was damned glad of it!" The Democrats gutted the NFA section of the bill, and the Republicrats were damned glad of it!
I've no use for either of them if they won't stand and fight when there's a fight to be stood on our behalf. We didn't send them to Washington to cave in when it got a little adversarial. If they'll cave in on this, which would have been an easy win, what else will they cave in on when the rubber meets the road? What if the next fight they just back away from slowly is a lot more important than just suppressors? They've already established the precedent that they will cut bait and run like hell from a little fight... so what do you suppose they'll do if faced with a big one?
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RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - Ninurta - 07-04-2025
I researched the wording in the bill. It's far, far worse than I originally thought.
It amends the NFA to read that there will be a 200 dollar transfer tax on "machineguns and destructive devices" in paragraph one. The following paragraph ls changed to read that there will be a 0 dollar tax on "any firearm not specified in paragraph one".
That means, boys and girls, that when this law goes into effect, ALL firearms are suddenly brought under the NFA. Machineguns and destructive devices will have a 200 dollar NFA transfer tax, and everything that is a firearm but NOT a machinegun or destructive device will suddenly have a NFA transfer tax of 0 dollars.
Not a big deal, I hear you say - so what if they want to charge me a zero dollar transfer tax. that's no money out of MY pocket. You're right, it's no money out of your pocket... but it also means that any time the anti-gunners want to, they can start applying all of the "enforcement measures" of the NFA to each and every firearm sale.
Waiting periods while the feds background you. fingerprint cards sent in to the feds every time you buy a gun. ATF surprise inspections on whatever premises you've declared will house your guns, to make sure your guns are where you said they'll be. The necessity to carry your zero dollar tax stamp along wherever you take your gun - to the range, for example. According to the NFA, that tax stamp has to be available for inspection (to prove your all taxed up) whenever and wherever the gun is. A registry so that the government, after having given you permission to exercise a right, know exactly who has what, and where they keep it.
If I realized it before Trump has even signed the bill, how long do you think it's going to take the anti-gunnes to realize it?
So, it's worse than I thought. Not only have they failed to do what was promised, they've actually sold us down the river.
Have to wait to see how it plays out in the courts, but this is potentially bad, VERY bad. It has the potential to have all of the gun control measures that the anti-gunners have ever had in their wettest dreams.
It's some of the worst written legislation I've ever seen. Instead of specifying suppressors, SBR's, SBS's, and AOW's like they led us to believe, it just blankets every firearm with an NFA tax, either a 200 dollar one or a zero dollar one, with all the baggage that comes along with that tax.
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RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - FCD - 07-04-2025
Quote:So, it's worse than I thought. Not only have they failed to do what was promised, they've actually sold us down the river.
You only forgot one thing, one word..." (again)". They..."sold us down the river...(again)."
RE: Trump warns of 68% tax increase! - Ninurta - 07-04-2025
(07-04-2025, 03:19 PM)FCD Wrote:Quote:So, it's worse than I thought. Not only have they failed to do what was promised, they've actually sold us down the river.
You only forgot one thing, one word..." (again)". They..."sold us down the river...(again)."
True enough. I stand corrected. I thought '94 was bad, but it doesn't hold a candle to this... IF the Dems choose to make hay while the sun is shining on them, courtesy of the Republicrats... and assuming the court battles go as they've been set up to go.
I've no doubt that Trump will sign the bill into law, considering the fuss he's made over it, so he gets his sops in it while selling the rest of us down the river.
Odd turn of phrase, that "sold down the river". It comes from the days of slavery. The bigger plantations were "down river", towards the river mouths where the ports for shipping produce were, and the lands were flatter and richer, due to alluvium deposits from periodic flooding. If a slave on an upper plantation or farm was particularly problematic, they would be "sold down the river" to the bigger plantations, where they would receive far worse treatment and be worked far harder.
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