Interstellar visitor

[gortex]

Hubble managed to get a look better at 3I/Atlas a couple of weeks ago , have to say it is a very un-comet looking comet , maybe its tail will grow when it gets closer to the Sun or maybe it won't.


Astronomers say its ovoid shape is due to its tail I say traveling at 130,000 mph and the camera that captured an object traveling way faster than a speeding bullet may well be the cause of that , it size has also been estimated down to a diameter of no more than 3.5 miles perhaps even as small as 1,000 feet.

If it is our Alien Overlords I do hope it's a case of "we come in peace" and not "Mmmm you look tasty"

[HaarFager]

If it is our Alien Overlords I do hope it's a case of "we come in peace" and not "Mmmm you look tasty"

"It's a COOKBOOK!"

---

[This was a totally different comment not connected with the above reply to Gortex.]:

If it's an asteroid, it could have things going on inside it.

Remember the Star Trek epsiode where the people lived inside an asteroid and didn't know it was actually a space ship?  It was called "For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky."  The Enterprise had to put it back on it's right course before it smashed into another world.  Here's a shot of said asteroid from a shot I took of the TV screen back in the 1970s with a Kodak Instamatic 126 camera:



Star Trek 126 par HaarFager, on ipernity

[F2d5thCav]

Question for Gortex.

So Avi Loeb is making a big deal out of this object being very bright on the end that is facing toward us on its approach.

I'm thinking that if that side has a lot of natural material with a high albedo, it would reflect the light of our sun brightly.

I understand comets don't "usually" appear that way, but is my thought off base ?

[Ninurta]

Take it with a grain of salt. Every since his "conclusion" that Oumouamoua was potentially an alien space ship, Avi Loeb has been seeing aliens under every bed and in every closet. Anything he sees as beingout of the ordiary now seems to be a potential alien space ship.


.

[gortex]

The likelihood is that 3I/Atlas is a natural object but as with Oumuamua it displays interesting characteristics
, Oumuamua on top of its unusual shape exhibited a small non-gravitational acceleration as it left our system which is still a matter of debate that remains unexplained while 3I/Atlas is traveling at ludicrous speed compared to other objects we've seen with a statistically improbable trajectory , Avi Loeb accepts they are probably natural object but that doesn't mean we should rule out the possibility they may be Alien technology , it is the duty of science to observe this object with an open mind and collect as much data as is possible.

Even if they are natural objects that doesn't mean they weren't sent this way equipped with Alien technology to take a covert look at an interesting Planetary system , observation is the cornerstone of the scientific method so it's likely another more scientifically advanced civilisation would , as we have done in our limited way , send out probes to this relatively young Star system.

Avi Loeb speaks to Fox 10 Phoenix.


Our own Ion drive tech could theoretically propel an object to approximately 300,000 kilometers per second over time which is faster than Atlas is traveling although Atlas could have entered slow down mode as it entered our Solar System and could accelerate as it leaves but we need to observe it to find out.

Not saying its Aliens but it could be , which I think is also Avi Loeb's point.

[Kenzo1]

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.....

[gortex]

Prof. Avi Loeb has written a new paper suggesting that as we can't send a probe to intercept 3I/Atlas we could perhaps use the Juno spacecraft which is currently orbiting Jupiter to take a look at 3I/Atlas as it passes the planet on on March 14th 2026 6rather than than crash the probe into Jupiter as currently planned. 

It is quite clear that a mission launched from Earth to 3I is completely infeasible, given how little warning we had of its arrival in the Solar System. Furthermore, it would not be within the performance envelope of the proposed ESA Comet Interceptor mission, so in other words, even if a spacecraft had been waiting at the Sun/Earth L2 point. Now, 3I coincidently comes quite close to Mars, Jupiter, and Venus, which is in itself a strange happenstance and will be unlikely to recur with any future ISO.

It seems reasonable, therefore, given the above serendipities and the impossibility of a dedicated probe being launched to encounter it in time, to enquire whether any existing spacecraft orbiting around Mars or Jupiter could be exploited for an intercept or a close approach. It is thus in this context that the work is worthwhile, and such analysis will only apply to ISOs that happen to have close encounters with the planets, which, as I have articulated, will be very rare indeed.

If doable, this exciting new goal will rejuvenate Juno's mission and extend its scientific lifespan beyond March 14th, 2026. So far, we have examined a zero-distance intercept of Juno with 3I/ATLAS. The optimal option involves a Jupiter Oberth Maneuver, which requires an application of ∆V on September 9th, 2025, only 8 days prior to the originally intended termination date for Juno's plunge into the atmosphere of Jupiter. Having delivered this thrust to diminish Juno's altitude, a further ∆V is subsequently delivered, constituting a Jupiter Oberth Maneuver and resulting in an eventual intercept of the target 3I/ATLAS on March 14th, 2026.
https://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-probe-...ntists-say

It also seems the slight tail and ovoid shape shown by the Hubble image of 3I/Atlas isn't a tail as it's on the leading edge of the object heading toward the Sun , spectral analysis of the object also shows no evidence of a Cometary tail ... yet.

Over the past day, new figures were added to the latest paper I wrote a week ago with Adam Hibberd and Adam Crowl, which suggested to probe 3I/ATLAS with the Juno spacecraft when it passes within a distance of 54 million kilometers from Jupiter on March 16, 2026. The new figures show that two impulses of thrust can bring Juno to within 25 million kilometers from the path of 3I/ATLAS, using merely 60 kilograms of propellant, only 3% of the initial fuel that Juno had at its disposal. Here’s hoping that NASA will follow up on our proposal for the benefit of interstellar space archaeology. The scientific exploration of our cosmic neighborhood is young and we still have a lot to learn.
https://avi-loeb.medium.com/3i-atlas-has...d5d2cb0a86

Not sayin it's Aliens but if we don't use all the tools at our disposal to look with an open mind how will we know , assuming it's a Comet doesn't make it a Comet.

[Kenzo1]

Prof. Avi Loeb has written a new paper suggesting that as we can't send a probe to intercept 3I/Atlas we could perhaps use the Juno spacecraft which is currently orbiting Jupiter to take a look at 3I/Atlas as it passes the planet on on March 14th 2026 6rather than than crash the probe into Jupiter as currently planned. 

It is quite clear that a mission launched from Earth to 3I is completely infeasible, given how little warning we had of its arrival in the Solar System. Furthermore, it would not be within the performance envelope of the proposed ESA Comet Interceptor mission, so in other words, even if a spacecraft had been waiting at the Sun/Earth L2 point. Now, 3I coincidently comes quite close to Mars, Jupiter, and Venus, which is in itself a strange happenstance and will be unlikely to recur with any future ISO.

It seems reasonable, therefore, given the above serendipities and the impossibility of a dedicated probe being launched to encounter it in time, to enquire whether any existing spacecraft orbiting around Mars or Jupiter could be exploited for an intercept or a close approach. It is thus in this context that the work is worthwhile, and such analysis will only apply to ISOs that happen to have close encounters with the planets, which, as I have articulated, will be very rare indeed.

If doable, this exciting new goal will rejuvenate Juno's mission and extend its scientific lifespan beyond March 14th, 2026. So far, we have examined a zero-distance intercept of Juno with 3I/ATLAS. The optimal option involves a Jupiter Oberth Maneuver, which requires an application of ∆V on September 9th, 2025, only 8 days prior to the originally intended termination date for Juno's plunge into the atmosphere of Jupiter. Having delivered this thrust to diminish Juno's altitude, a further ∆V is subsequently delivered, constituting a Jupiter Oberth Maneuver and resulting in an eventual intercept of the target 3I/ATLAS on March 14th, 2026.
https://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-probe-...ntists-say

It also seems the slight tail and ovoid shape shown by the Hubble image of 3I/Atlas isn't a tail as it's on the leading edge of the object heading toward the Sun , spectral analysis of the object also shows no evidence of a Cometary tail ... yet.

Over the past day, new figures were added to the latest paper I wrote a week ago with Adam Hibberd and Adam Crowl, which suggested to probe 3I/ATLAS with the Juno spacecraft when it passes within a distance of 54 million kilometers from Jupiter on March 16, 2026. The new figures show that two impulses of thrust can bring Juno to within 25 million kilometers from the path of 3I/ATLAS, using merely 60 kilograms of propellant, only 3% of the initial fuel that Juno had at its disposal. Here’s hoping that NASA will follow up on our proposal for the benefit of interstellar space archaeology. The scientific exploration of our cosmic neighborhood is young and we still have a lot to learn.
https://avi-loeb.medium.com/3i-atlas-has...d5d2cb0a86

Not sayin it's Aliens but if we don't use all the tools at our disposal to look with an open mind how will we know , assuming it's a Comet doesn't make it a Comet.

Houston...we may have a problem 

[F2d5thCav]

... and aboard the bridge of a nearby Klingon warship ...

Tactical surveillance: "Captain, the unknown has launched ... alert! alert!  Incoming planet buster missile!"

Captain:  "Helm, hard about and maximum evasive maneuvers ... get us out of this system!"

---

Cav, down on old Terra.  "Huh, what's that bright light in the sky ?"

[FCD]

Kenzo, very interesting!!

I am constantly amazed these days at the levels of accuracy they are able to achieve with some of these photographs of space objects!  I mean, 3 Arc secs.??  Really??  WOW!!  This probably means they have classified capabilities well below even this!

I don't think there's a whole lot to be learned by crashing Juno into Jupiter as planned.  Maybe some atmospheric data on the way down, but once you're at a certain altitude on Jupiter the intense gravitational forces will crush just about any instrument invented by mankind.

[Kenzo1]

Kenzo, very interesting!!

I am constantly amazed these days at the levels of accuracy they are able to achieve with some of these photographs of space objects!  I mean, 3 Arc secs.??  Really??  WOW!!  This probably means they have classified capabilities well below even this!

I don't think there's a whole lot to be learned by crashing Juno into Jupiter as planned.  Maybe some atmospheric data on the way down, but once you're at a certain altitude on Jupiter the intense gravitational forces will crush just about any instrument invented by mankind.

What is ARC ?  

Yes the things is truly flying fast.....

Yeeh they should stop the silly Juno into Jupiter crash , not that i really do know anything about Jupiter ...

[gortex]

In the latest news from 3I/Atlas it appears the "comet" may be producing its own light which is odd and it may be much smaller than current estimates imply.

Figure 3 of the analysis paper (accessible here) shows a steep surface brightness profile of the glow with a projected power-law slope of -3, which implies a three-dimensional emissivity profile with a radial power-law slope of -4. Such a slope is steeper than observed in solar system comets. Together with my brilliant colleague, Eric Keto, we realized that the observed slope of -4 is consistent with an alternative model in which the dust outflow around 3I/ATLAS is illuminated by a central source. This model naturally accounts for the steep brightness profile, since the outflow density slope of -2 is accompanied by the radial decline of the illuminating radiation flux with an additional declining slope of -2.

If 3I/ATLAS generates its own light, then it could be much smaller than expected from a model in which it reflects sunlight. The reflection model requires a diameter of up to 20 kilometers, which is untenable given that the limited reservoir of rocky material in interstellar space can only deliver such a giant rock once per 10,000 years or longer (see the calculation in my paper.

The simplest interpretation is that the nucleus of 3I/ATLAS produces most of the light. I calculated that the nucleus cannot be a thermal emitter with an effective surface temperature below 1000 degrees Kelvin or else its peak emission wavelength would have been longer than 3 micrometers with an exponential cutoff at shorter wavelengths, incompatible with the data. At higher effective temperatures, the required luminosity of 3I/ATLAS can be obtained from a source diameter smaller than 100 meters. A compact bright emitter would make 3I/ATLAS of comparable size to the previous interstellar objects 1I/`Oumuamua or 2I/Borisov, making more sense than the 20-kilometer size inferred in the model where it reflects sunlight.
https://avi-loeb.medium.com/does-3i-atla...775594afc5

 



Not saying it's Spock ... but it might be.



The Angry Astronaut takes a closer look at the story.

[F2d5thCav]

Gortex,

  It is visible radiation emitted by the impulse drive 

  Voyager is returning home with much new data ...

[Kenzo1]

Gortex,

  It is visible radiation emitted by the impulse drive 

  Voyager is returning home with much new data ...

I knew it! 

[gortex]

3I/Atlas has been looked at by NASA's SPHEREx telescope which was sent into orbit earlier this year to help map the Universe , data from SPHEREx suggests Atlas is a very big boy with a diameter of 46 kilometers making it too big and too bright to be your traditional comet and there's still no tail visible , I'm with Avi Loeb and hope it's just an anomaly that will sail on through. 

Most interestingly, the flux detected at a wavelength of 1 micrometer from 3I/ATLAS suggests a large nucleus with a diameter of 46 kilometers. If this represents a solid body, then the mass of 3I/ATLAS must be a million times bigger than the previous interstellar comet 2I/Borisov. This makes little sense since we should have found of order a million objects of the size of 2I/Borisov before discovering a 46-kilometer interstellar object. Moreover, as I noted in my first paper on 3I/ATLAS (accessible here), the amount of rocky material per unit volume in interstellar space is too small by a factor of ten thousand than the value needed to deliver into the inner Solar system one giant rock of this size over the ATLAS decade-long survey.
Alternatively, 3I/ATLAS may have targeted the inner solar system by technological design. This possibility is consistent with the alignment of its trajectory with the orbital plane of the planets around the Sun, a coincidence of a part in 500 for a random orientation — as observed for 2I/Borisov.
The lack of a cometary tail in the Hubble Space Telescope image is evidence that there is not much dust around 3I/ATLAS with particle size on the scale of the wavelength of sunlight (0.5 micrometers). In that case, the observed reddening in the spectrum of reflected sunlight should originate from the surface of the object, implying that the object is large and dominates the reflected sunlight rather than the dust cloud around it.

The CO2 mass loss amounts to the ablation of a millimeter thick layer from the surface of a 46-km rock over a period of 10 years. This means that a relatively thin outer layer is sufficient to maintain the observed cloud of CO2 gas and dust around 3I/ATLAS. What lies under this outer layer is still unknown. We are all waiting for the release of the first data from the Webb Space Telescope, when it observed 3I/ATLAS on August 6, 2025.

Here’s hoping that as the Sun turns on the heat on 3I/ATLAS in the coming months, it will reveal its true nature.

https://avi-loeb.medium.com/3i-atlas-is-...fe3a31b3e5

Hopefully the Webb data will be released soon and we can get a better picture of what we are looking at .... unless there's a "problem with the data" of course.

[F2d5thCav]

Gortex--

My take is that it is something 'natural'.

The 'Other' has amply demonstrated its presence over the decades.  They have no need of guessing games.

Regardless, the object is of scientific interest and should be documented to every possible extent.

[gortex]

I agree the likelihood is it's a giant rock passing through at the speed it's traveling on the trajectory it's on due chance... but it could be a neighbour taking a look at our back yard.

[Kenzo1]

3I/Atlas seems to release Carbon Dioxide (CO2).


3I/ATLAS is Large and Releases Carbon Dioxide (CO2)


As a side note, my car also releases carbon dioxide from the combustion engine  

[gortex]

The first image and data from James Webb has finally been released.

As expected, 3I/ATLAS is outgassing as it approaches the sun, and astronomers have used the JWST and its NIRSpec instrument to identify carbon dioxide, water, water ice, carbon monoxide, and the smelly gas carbonyl sulfide in its coma.

What wasn't expected, however, was the highest ratio of carbon dioxide to water ever observed in a comet. This could reveal more about the conditions in which 3I/ATLAS formed.

The abundance of carbon dioxide in the coma of 3I/ATLAS could indicate that the interstellar comet has a heart that is intrinsically rich in carbon dioxide. This could imply that the comet contains ices that were exposed to much higher levels of radiation than comets in the solar system have been exposed to.

Alternatively, the team suggests this high carbon dioxide content could indicate that 3I/ATLAS may have formed in a specific site called the "carbon dioxide ice line" within the swirling cloud of matter, or "protoplanetary disk," that surrounded its stellar parent. This is defined as the point at which the temperature around an infant star or "protostar" falls low enough to allow carbon dioxide to change from a gas to a solid.

Furthermore, the low abundance of water vapor in the coma of 3I/ATLAS could indicate that there is something within the comet that is inhibiting heat from penetrating the icy core of the comet. This would hinder the amount of water transforming from ice into gas relative to the transformation rate of carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide.


https://www.space.com/astronomy/james-we...ed-results

    
Avi Loeb has offered his comments on the Webb data.

The CO2 mass loss amounts to the ablation of a millimeter thick layer from the surface of a 46-kilometer object over a period of a few years. In other words, a relatively thin outer layer is sufficient to maintain the observed cloud of CO2 gas around 3I/ATLAS. What lies under this outer skin remains unknown.

The high CO2 to H2O ratio is puzzling. There is only one previous comet with a similarly extreme CO2 to H2O ratio, named C/2016 R2, but its image shows a clear cometary tail that does not look anything like the plume around 3I/ATLAS. The Webb team conjectures that the anomalous composition of the gas plume surrounding 3I/ATLAS might be the result of high reflectance or reduced heat penetration through its surface. Increasing the albedo from 5% to the maximum value of 100% for a mirror, reduces the estimated diameter from 46 to 10 kilometers based on the SPHEREx data. This still poses an untenable demand on rocky material in interstellar space.

A way to resolve the discrepancy between the mass reservoir of rocks in interstellar space and the unexpected discovery of a large object, is that 3I/ATLAS was not drawn from a population of rocks on random trajectories but instead — its trajectory was designed to target the inner Solar system. This possibility is consistent with the alignment of this retrograde trajectory with the orbital plane of the planets around the Sun, a coincidence of 1 part in 500 for a random occurrence.
https://avi-loeb.medium.com/the-first-we...d89e872870

[EndtheMadnessNow]

Detonation of all those atomic and nuclear weapons decades ago are now bearing wormy fruit.

Question for Gortex.

Which star is 80 light years distant and considered a candidate to have planets that could support life ?

80 years since Trinity Test.

Ω

I'm assuming you know of this, I was not, at least not off the top of my mind so did a quick search and found...

The star HD 156668, located approximately 80 light-years away, is noted for hosting a "super-Earth" exoplanet, HD 156668b, with a mass about four times that of Earth. This planet was detected in 2010 and is described as orbiting much closer to its star than Earth does to the Sun, resulting in high temperatures (1,200–1,648°C). Due to these extreme conditions, it is unlikely to support life as we know it, despite its "super-Earth" classification.

For stars slightly closer or farther, more promising candidates: Gliese 12, about 40 light-years away, hosts Gliese 12 b, an Earth-sized exoplanet in the habitable zone of its red dwarf star, with a surface temperature around 42°C, making it a strong candidate for potential habitability.

L 98-59, 35 light-years away, has a super-Earth, L 98-59 f, in its habitable zone, receiving similar stellar energy to Earth, suggesting conditions where liquid water could exist.

Course that doesn't mean there is not one similar to Earth 80 light years distant; just we haven't yet detected one.

*************





00:00 The Discovery of 3I Atlas
12:21 Avi Loeb's Perspective on Alien Technology
25:25 The Fermi Paradox and Dark Forest Theory
37:30 The Implications of Hypervelocity Impacts
42:08 The Enigmatic Nature of 3I Atlas
45:02 Orbital Dynamics and Intercept Challenges
52:57 Potential Missions and Future Opportunities
56:47 Natural vs. Technological Origins
01:01:15 Close Encounters and Impact Probabilities
01:09:54 Conclusions and Future Implications

Avi Loeb's 13-page Paper