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He Brew What - or He Brew Who? - Minstrel - 01-22-2026
Did Moses pen the Pentateuch?
Or, did he have scribes?
Moses, purportedly, inscribed the second set of tablets, himself...
'God', purportedly, inscribed the first set of tablets...
Were they, both, inscribed in the same language...?
If so...was it in what we know as "Hebrew"?
Today, 'Scholars' say that the language we call "Hebrew" did not 'come about' until approximately 1,000 BC.
How long does it take, for a language to become a language?
RE: He Brew What - or He Brew Who? - Bally002 - 01-22-2026
(01-22-2026, 05:40 AM)Minstrel Wrote: Did Moses pen the Pentateuch?
Or, did he have scribes?
Moses, purportedly, inscribed the second set of tablets, himself...
'God', purportedly, inscribed the first set of tablets...
Were they, both, inscribed in the same language...?
If so...was it in what we know as "Hebrew"?
Today, 'Scholars' say that the language we call "Hebrew" did not 'come about' until approximately 1,000 BC.
How long does it take, for a language to become a language?
I'm in several minds about this. "the original by the Lord is destroyed so a copy was made." I don't know in what language. Thinking, well, Moses, must of had a good education to know how to read and write. (And a good memory of facts to put stone chisel to tablet). I dunno, but for years after my teaching/education in this matter I call it a scam for the benefit of Moses in the book.
"Thou shalt not kill !!!!"
Well, that didn't work in the movie for Yul Brunner did it as Moses destroyed his troops crossing the sea.
Much more for each testament in that time. But I only know the English version.
Kind regards,
Bally)
RE: He Brew What - or He Brew Who? - Ninurta - 01-22-2026
The Exodus is supposed to have happened about 1440 BC. So, not Hebrew.
Moses was supposed to have been raised by Pharaoh's daughter, in Pharaoh's household from right after his birth until adulthood, so what he could read and write had to be either hieroglyphics or hieratic.
If he could read the original set of tablets written by God, then they also had to be written in either hieroglyphic or hieratic.
Therefore, both sets of tablets had to be written in either Egyptian hieroglyphics or Egyptian hieratic. Otherwise, no one there could have read them, and to those present they would have just been rock slabs with squiggly things on them.
One way to know for sure would be to find the Ark of the Covenant, because it is supposed to house the tablets.
There is also a slight possibility that they were written in Akkadian cuneiform, because that became a sort of lingua franca in the middle east in the second millennium BC. Yet another possibility is proto-Sianitic, since it did exist at the time as shown by finds a Serabit el Khadim.
https://jewishstudies.rutgers.edu/images/documents/faculty/Rendsburg/Writing_Scripts.pdf
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In the Masoretic Text from which the Bible is translated, the commandments do not say "Thou shalt not kill" They say "thou shalt not do murder". There is a difference, because some killings are justified.
.
RE: He Brew What - or He Brew Who? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 01-22-2026
He-Brew Beer!
I read an article a year or so ago that was about the oldest known brewery found in Jerusalem. Although that was the oldest brewery, it was always thought that beer was invented in Egypt.
RE: He Brew What - or He Brew Who? - SomeJackleg - 01-22-2026
(01-22-2026, 10:08 AM)Ninurta Wrote: The Exodus is supposed to have happened about 1440 BC. So, not Hebrew.
Moses was supposed to have been raised by Pharaoh's daughter, in Pharaoh's household from right after his birth until adulthood, so what he could read and write had to be either hieroglyphics or hieratic.
If he could read the original set of tablets written by God, then they also had to be written in either hieroglyphic or hieratic.
Therefore, both sets of tablets had to be written in either Egyptian hieroglyphics or Egyptian hieratic. Otherwise, no one there could have read them, and to those present they would have just been rock slabs with squiggly things on them.
One way to know for sure would be to find the Ark of the Covenant, because it is supposed to house the tablets.
There is also a slight possibility that they were written in Akkadian cuneiform, because that became a sort of lingua franca in the middle east in the second millennium BC. Yet another possibility is proto-Sianitic, since it did exist at the time as shown by finds a Serabit el Khadim.
https://jewishstudies.rutgers.edu/images/documents/faculty/Rendsburg/Writing_Scripts.pdf
--------------------------------------------------------------
In the Masoretic Text from which the Bible is translated, the commandments do not say "Thou shalt not kill" They say "thou shalt not do murder". There is a difference, because some killings are justified.
.
remember Moses spent a fairly long time with Jethro and his family. it is entirely possible that he learned their language or other before returning to Egypt. and if i'm not mistaken Jethro was a decedent of Abraham thru his first born Ishmael it is said they spoke Hebrew by many scholars. it also believed that Abraham being from Ur of the Chaldean's spoke Akkadian and the various peoples languages that they lived with though their travels through the land. then you can't forgot Melchizedek / Jesus Abraham's people stayed with. we all know he could speak any language.
then you have to think about the Hebrew/Apiru/ Habriu school of thought.
RE: He Brew What - or He Brew Who? - EndtheMadnessNow - 01-23-2026
I went down a language path for my own bit of curiosity since I know next to nothing about it.
Hebrew belongs to the Semitic language family alongside languages like Akkadian (attested from ~2500 BCE), Aramaic, Phoenician, and Ugaritic in Syria up until the Sea Peoples invaded, then it faded out. Hebrew's ancestor Proto-Semitic, dates back well before 3000 BCE, but Hebrew itself developed from Proto-Canaanite, that being Canaanite dialects spoken in the Levant. Nobody knows where exactly Proto-Semitic language originated. The closest language today to Proto-Semitic is Arabic.
Linguists and archaeologists place the emergence of Hebrew proper around the time Israelite tribes settled in Canaan (circa 1200–1000 BCE), where it differentiated from closely related Canaanite languages like Phoenician and Moabite. The language was likely spoken earlier in oral form, but far as I know we lack direct evidence for its very beginnings, as distinct languages evolve gradually (centuries to millennia) from dialects. Just as current English did.
Inscriptions from around the 10th century BCE, such as the Gezer Calendar (a limestone tablet listing agricultural seasons, discovered in Gezer and dated to circa 925–900 BCE during the time of King Solomon). It uses an early Paleo-Hebrew script (derived from Phoenician) and is widely regarded as one of the oldest clear examples of written Hebrew, though some debate whether its language is fully distinct from Phoenician yet.
"How long does it take, for a language to become a [distinct] language?"
If you ask that to 10 linguists you'll likely get 9 different answers according to my uncle, a retired linguist at the Pentagon.
So the question is really: How long until speakers of related varieties can no longer understand each other without special effort (mutual unintelligibility)? That is the conventional linguistic threshold for recognizing two varieties as separate languages rather than dialects.
Rough Time Scales from Historical Linguistics & Linguists observe wide variation depending on factors like population size, contact intensity, writing systems (which slow change), social pressures and war conquests.
Mutual unintelligibility often emerges in 500–1,000 years of separation/isolation for many language families. This is a common "lower bound" cited in historical linguistics:
* After ~500 years: Noticeable divergence, but partial understanding possible (like modern English speakers reading Shakespeare with effort).
* After ~800–1,000 years: Usually full mutual unintelligibility in spoken form.
Examples of real-world divergence timelines starting roughly 3,000 years ago to present:
Romance languages (from Vulgar Latin): Began diverging noticeably after the Western Roman Empire's fall (5th century CE). By the 8th–9th centuries CE (300–500 years later), regional varieties were distinct enough to be seen as separate (e.g., early Old French, Old Spanish, Old Italian). Full modern distinctions solidified over ~1,000–1,500 years total.
Germanic languages (from Proto-Germanic): Divergence started ~500 BCE–1 CE. By ~500–800 CE (roughly 1,000–1,500 years), branches like Old English, Old High German, and Old Norse were clearly separate and not mutually intelligible.
Slavic languages (from Proto-Slavic): Proto-Slavic existed until ~500–800 CE. Major branches (East, West, South Slavic) diverged over the next few centuries; by ~1,000–1,200 years ago, they were distinct languages, though many remain more mutually intelligible than Romance or Germanic ones due to later splits and less drastic changes.
Glottochronology (a debated but useful method using core vocabulary retention rates; I think most linguists frown upon it) estimates ~14–19% replacement per millennium in basic word lists, leading to ~74% retention after 1,000 years and ~40–55% after 2,000–3,000 years often correlating with unintelligibility around the 1,000-year mark in many families.
In short, over the past 3,000 years, the typical range for a new distinct language to emerge from divergence is several centuries to 1–2 millennia, most commonly landing in the 500–1,500 year window for full separation. There is no universal clock, change rates vary widely, but this range covers most natural, gradual cases in Indo-European and many other families.
Linguistics 001 - Language Change & Historical Reconstruction
How long does it take for language to diverge?
How Fast Do Languages Evolve? - Dyirbal glottochronology 1 of 2 (Video)
Language evolution and human history: what a difference a date makes
Comparing Germanic, Romance and Slavic: Relationships among linguistic distances
RE: He Brew What - or He Brew Who? - Minstrel - 01-24-2026
@Bally002 -
"Thou shalt not kill !!!"
Fortunately, for Moses, 'The Law' had not been given, at the Red Sea.
And...the New Testament says 'there is no sin without law'...
So, maybe he was grandfathered-In.
Cheerios
@Ninurta - How do you speak in hieroglyphics or hieratic?
I can understand writing and reading...but - don't most languages have a spoken component, too?
...One that matches the written component?
I mean - did the people on the street, and in business/commerce/government have a spoken language that flowed like hieroglyphics?
If so - I'm thinking that whoever is telling us what the hieroglyphic 'texts' are saying...is probably wrong.
@Michigan Swamp Buck - Stellar idea. Like hot dogs...but with beer. Kosher. Circumcised.
@EndtheMadnessNow - First time I think I have ever considered an 'unintelligibility-quotient', much less 'mutual unintelligibility', and even further, that mutual unintelligibility was/is associated with the maturation of a language.
500 years, versus 800-1,000 years - Sounds like early versus later retirement. Looks to me like there might tons of lost languages might have matured to a quasi-adolescent stage, only to get lost when the next fad comes along?
"Moses In The Wilderness"
by: Larry Norman